Thank you for writing this. I got married young, only 23, and in my haste to make the occasion feel more grown up, I told my mom that I didn't want any children there besides my young cousins who served as flower girls. Thank goodness she was wise enough to tell me that the day wasn't just about my groom and me. It was for our loved ones to celebrate our covenant, to dance with us, and celebrate us, and witness what it means to be together as a family.
This is a timely tender spot for me- we just were invited to a wedding, but not the kids. Now, none of us can go to support them (far away, no overnight childcare where we live). I said the same thing, would they ever think to exclude their elders who"could fall"? No. I feel wounded by the exclusion. I appreciate you highlighting this in a beauty-focused way. Your writing style reminds me of Tad Hardgrave, do you know his work?
Appreciate your point—and maybe the invitation should have included the kids, or not explicitly excluded them.
But I see only logistical issues here, not malice. Specifically: if this was to be an overnight trip, how would the sleeping arrangements have worked, either way—for just the two of you, OR the whole family? Did the invitation include a sleepover in the hosts’ home? A motel nearby? At whose expense? Were the hosts perhaps able to accommodate two (or a few) adults overnight, but not those adults PLUS all their respective kids?
It would have been nice if they had INVITED the whole family, but this trip probably would have been a no-go unless you could leave the kids with a sitter. Which the hosts probably foresaw—and they just assumed you would be able to get a sitter if you wanted to attend.
I hope that, although disappointing, this matter won’t be allowed to ruin your friendship!
I cannot imagine a wedding without children. I made sure to explicitly tell everyone I invited to our wedding who had young children that their children were welcome too. Still most did not bring them as though they felt some cultural pressure not to.
Same...out of the ten or so children on the list, in the end only two were present because most of the parents found alternative childcare to 'have the night off'. The wedding was great but it would have been even better with even more kids...
This got me a little damp eyed. Maybe it was the intro, using children and bluebirds to really set it in, maybe it was the hormones, maybe it was the empty nest and upcoming nuptials of my daughter. I'm so sad to see what our society is becoming, but full of hope for the light bearers of the world. Marriage is not a performance.
If kids aren't part of the community, then it's not a community I want to be a part of, that's how I see it.
Guests can be supported in whatever decisions they need to make (leaving early to put the baby to bed, leaving kids with a sitter) but it should be their decision to make. A wedding isn't just an expensive party, it's a deeply personal *and* public act. Who's invited represents that fact, and I agree that if it were any other group of people excluded for being "stressful" or annoying or whatever, the argument couldn't even be made.
Whenever this discourse pops up I wonder what people would think of our family weddings. At my brother’s, for example, all 20+ of his nieces and nephews were there. There was no question about it - their uncle is getting married, they are there for it.
However, children of other adults (say, our cousins), are not invited. It’s not because we don’t like children or want them at weddings - it’s because the guest list would increase by at least 100 people. Is this considered rude/wrong by people to not include those children? It’s definitely not a “my wedding is all about me and children ruin things.” It’s simply about logistics at that point, with a guest list that is automatically over 200 simply by including adult family members alone.
In re: the wedding is not 'exclusively' yours. I was married at 19 for one year (that was 45 years ago). I was too young and confused etc. I was the one who initiated the divorce. About six years ago life circumstances provided me an opportunity to speak to my former husband. I was so grateful for this because I had always wanted to apologize to him and his family for my stupid youth. He was puzzled by my apology; I told him - the wedding/marriage was not *just* about us-it involved each of our families and the time and care they had put into us and our future.
A couple I know just got married almost by themselves, because her family didn't approve. She does have nieces and nephews who would have been there, and probably other children of friends also. The irony is that this couple is very committed to having a family--it would have been 1000% appropriate and approved by them to have had children present when they said their vows.
What you have written here is so touching and evokes a deep yearning for the world where everything is not commoditized and branded, and where the continuity of inter-generational life is valued and honored.
Thank you Betsy. Yes, I do think there is a material/commodity element to this. We wouldn’t want any disruptions to the “vibes” of the day, now would we?
There is totally a commoditized aura around weddings, now – you nailed it in your article. The vibe that you describe and evoke is the one that I would like to see coming back. As a society, in the US, anyway, we have gone way too far away from what life is really about, which is not just children, but the whole complex of culture that puts families and life at the center. We think we're so modern and evolved. All we are is manipulated and diminished by those powers that benefit from doing that. The whole industry that has grown up around weddings is testament to this hijacking.
Your point is well driven home by a comment I just saw: “There were no kids at my wedding that I PAID FOR. It’s my party and I’ll no kids if I want to!” [sic] What this man paid for is front and center in his mind, even nearly three decades after his wedding. IT’S MINE I OWN IT. Low, low, low.
Just last night, I was having a discussion with friends about this very topic. I expressed the same sentiments as you have worded excellently. What also comes to mind for me is that with the celebration of a wedding, the husband and wife should begin as they mean to continue. Meaning, that if a couple were to begin their covenant already excluding children, it is contradictory in a way to automatically wish for your own children afterward. Also as you have stated, inviting children is to “invite the future to bear witness”, it is an important and beautiful reminder of how holy matrimony goes far beyond just the groom and bride. The witness of children should never be overlooked. Thank you for your writing here and for addressing this topic!
Oh this hits hard. Family member is getting married in 2 weeks no one under 18…this excludes 3 cousins who are 17…just nasty. Even worse is when they want baby free weddings, same wedding won’t allow a 6 week old baby to come whose parents already bought flights because they assumed it would be fine. Mass is always open to the public that includes wedding masses!
I wrote an essay awhile ago on our child-inclusive wedding, and why children BELONG at weddings! People still tell us (12 years later) that our wedding was the best one they’ve ever attended.
I can affirm. And not to pivot too much from the main point, but at 57, I went back to school for a second degree and made sure all children came to the diploma ceremony for the primary reason that I want them to carry a permanent memory of an older person taking on something brand new, growing and achieving - to add that to their inventory of future “north stars.” How much more so for marriage; how much more so for small children, before (or while) their understanding of the man-woman dynamic is formed.
Thank you for writing this. We had children at our wedding and it was chaos but it was glorious. It was six years ago and the children (who are not so small anymore!) often tell me about how they remember the dancing and the cake and falling asleep under the tables or on chairs their mum set out for them. Being a bridesmaid at 7 years old was quite a formational moment for me. I find myself in a conundrum now I have my own child - a close friend has asked me to be in the bridal party, but has said he cannot come. I can't quite comprehend it - in my mind, if he's not invited then neither am I.
Yeah, I look at our photos and see the children dancing in rain and later eating huge hunks of pork from the pig roast. They like to talk about that part in particular.
We get so focused on the trappings around the wedding - the dress, the decorations, the reception - that the actual wedding is deprioritised. The wedding itself is very child friendly a as and inexpensive; it’s the extra performance we have added that causes problems
Thank you for writing this. I got married young, only 23, and in my haste to make the occasion feel more grown up, I told my mom that I didn't want any children there besides my young cousins who served as flower girls. Thank goodness she was wise enough to tell me that the day wasn't just about my groom and me. It was for our loved ones to celebrate our covenant, to dance with us, and celebrate us, and witness what it means to be together as a family.
Holy smokes. Good mom.
This is a timely tender spot for me- we just were invited to a wedding, but not the kids. Now, none of us can go to support them (far away, no overnight childcare where we live). I said the same thing, would they ever think to exclude their elders who"could fall"? No. I feel wounded by the exclusion. I appreciate you highlighting this in a beauty-focused way. Your writing style reminds me of Tad Hardgrave, do you know his work?
Thank you for the note. I've been there too. It hurts. It's confusing. It's strange. I don't know Tad Hargrave but I will look him up!
I cannot even express how fantastic it is to see you here Kelsey! 🤗🥰❤️
I just got so much joy in seeing this and knowing that there are these strange and wonderful connections in the world.
Appreciate your point—and maybe the invitation should have included the kids, or not explicitly excluded them.
But I see only logistical issues here, not malice. Specifically: if this was to be an overnight trip, how would the sleeping arrangements have worked, either way—for just the two of you, OR the whole family? Did the invitation include a sleepover in the hosts’ home? A motel nearby? At whose expense? Were the hosts perhaps able to accommodate two (or a few) adults overnight, but not those adults PLUS all their respective kids?
It would have been nice if they had INVITED the whole family, but this trip probably would have been a no-go unless you could leave the kids with a sitter. Which the hosts probably foresaw—and they just assumed you would be able to get a sitter if you wanted to attend.
I hope that, although disappointing, this matter won’t be allowed to ruin your friendship!
Families can sleep in the same hotel room or air bnb and driving a car is the same price for gas no matter how many people are in the car.
Overnight babysitters are very hard to find and very very expensive. Much cheaper to bring kids with
I cannot imagine a wedding without children. I made sure to explicitly tell everyone I invited to our wedding who had young children that their children were welcome too. Still most did not bring them as though they felt some cultural pressure not to.
Same...out of the ten or so children on the list, in the end only two were present because most of the parents found alternative childcare to 'have the night off'. The wedding was great but it would have been even better with even more kids...
This got me a little damp eyed. Maybe it was the intro, using children and bluebirds to really set it in, maybe it was the hormones, maybe it was the empty nest and upcoming nuptials of my daughter. I'm so sad to see what our society is becoming, but full of hope for the light bearers of the world. Marriage is not a performance.
If kids aren't part of the community, then it's not a community I want to be a part of, that's how I see it.
Guests can be supported in whatever decisions they need to make (leaving early to put the baby to bed, leaving kids with a sitter) but it should be their decision to make. A wedding isn't just an expensive party, it's a deeply personal *and* public act. Who's invited represents that fact, and I agree that if it were any other group of people excluded for being "stressful" or annoying or whatever, the argument couldn't even be made.
You’re spot on that the trend of the curated experience is stripping rites and gatherings of their lifeblood.
Side note, my toddler saw the photo of the eastern bluebird as I read and said, “what’s this bird doing? I love him!” Compliments to your wife.
Thank you nice Ginny.
Whenever this discourse pops up I wonder what people would think of our family weddings. At my brother’s, for example, all 20+ of his nieces and nephews were there. There was no question about it - their uncle is getting married, they are there for it.
However, children of other adults (say, our cousins), are not invited. It’s not because we don’t like children or want them at weddings - it’s because the guest list would increase by at least 100 people. Is this considered rude/wrong by people to not include those children? It’s definitely not a “my wedding is all about me and children ruin things.” It’s simply about logistics at that point, with a guest list that is automatically over 200 simply by including adult family members alone.
In re: the wedding is not 'exclusively' yours. I was married at 19 for one year (that was 45 years ago). I was too young and confused etc. I was the one who initiated the divorce. About six years ago life circumstances provided me an opportunity to speak to my former husband. I was so grateful for this because I had always wanted to apologize to him and his family for my stupid youth. He was puzzled by my apology; I told him - the wedding/marriage was not *just* about us-it involved each of our families and the time and care they had put into us and our future.
A couple I know just got married almost by themselves, because her family didn't approve. She does have nieces and nephews who would have been there, and probably other children of friends also. The irony is that this couple is very committed to having a family--it would have been 1000% appropriate and approved by them to have had children present when they said their vows.
What you have written here is so touching and evokes a deep yearning for the world where everything is not commoditized and branded, and where the continuity of inter-generational life is valued and honored.
Thank you Betsy. Yes, I do think there is a material/commodity element to this. We wouldn’t want any disruptions to the “vibes” of the day, now would we?
There is totally a commoditized aura around weddings, now – you nailed it in your article. The vibe that you describe and evoke is the one that I would like to see coming back. As a society, in the US, anyway, we have gone way too far away from what life is really about, which is not just children, but the whole complex of culture that puts families and life at the center. We think we're so modern and evolved. All we are is manipulated and diminished by those powers that benefit from doing that. The whole industry that has grown up around weddings is testament to this hijacking.
Your point is well driven home by a comment I just saw: “There were no kids at my wedding that I PAID FOR. It’s my party and I’ll no kids if I want to!” [sic] What this man paid for is front and center in his mind, even nearly three decades after his wedding. IT’S MINE I OWN IT. Low, low, low.
Just last night, I was having a discussion with friends about this very topic. I expressed the same sentiments as you have worded excellently. What also comes to mind for me is that with the celebration of a wedding, the husband and wife should begin as they mean to continue. Meaning, that if a couple were to begin their covenant already excluding children, it is contradictory in a way to automatically wish for your own children afterward. Also as you have stated, inviting children is to “invite the future to bear witness”, it is an important and beautiful reminder of how holy matrimony goes far beyond just the groom and bride. The witness of children should never be overlooked. Thank you for your writing here and for addressing this topic!
Oh this hits hard. Family member is getting married in 2 weeks no one under 18…this excludes 3 cousins who are 17…just nasty. Even worse is when they want baby free weddings, same wedding won’t allow a 6 week old baby to come whose parents already bought flights because they assumed it would be fine. Mass is always open to the public that includes wedding masses!
Thank you for this!
I wrote an essay awhile ago on our child-inclusive wedding, and why children BELONG at weddings! People still tell us (12 years later) that our wedding was the best one they’ve ever attended.
https://open.substack.com/pub/emilynell/p/begin-as-you-mean-to-continue?r=aptxs&utm_medium=ios
Matthew 19:14 “but Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.’”
Children are a blessing and delight.
I can affirm. And not to pivot too much from the main point, but at 57, I went back to school for a second degree and made sure all children came to the diploma ceremony for the primary reason that I want them to carry a permanent memory of an older person taking on something brand new, growing and achieving - to add that to their inventory of future “north stars.” How much more so for marriage; how much more so for small children, before (or while) their understanding of the man-woman dynamic is formed.
Thank you for writing this. We had children at our wedding and it was chaos but it was glorious. It was six years ago and the children (who are not so small anymore!) often tell me about how they remember the dancing and the cake and falling asleep under the tables or on chairs their mum set out for them. Being a bridesmaid at 7 years old was quite a formational moment for me. I find myself in a conundrum now I have my own child - a close friend has asked me to be in the bridal party, but has said he cannot come. I can't quite comprehend it - in my mind, if he's not invited then neither am I.
Yeah, I look at our photos and see the children dancing in rain and later eating huge hunks of pork from the pig roast. They like to talk about that part in particular.
We get so focused on the trappings around the wedding - the dress, the decorations, the reception - that the actual wedding is deprioritised. The wedding itself is very child friendly a as and inexpensive; it’s the extra performance we have added that causes problems
Wise insight.